In this episode of The Healing Law Podcast, I sit down with M. H. T. Kang, also known as The Machine Lies, author of Logos Dethroned and creator of The Machine Lies YouTube channel. Our conversation explores technology, philosophy, theology, symbolism, wild nature, and the systems shaping modern life.

We discuss whether technology is truly morally neutral, how human creations begin to shape human behavior, and why many modern systems seem designed to separate people from nature, tradition, and direct experience. Kang lays out a powerful framework for thinking about technology not simply as a tool, but as a force that carries values of its own.

The conversation also moves into religion, language, media, agriculture, synthetic chemicals, environmental destruction, and the need to recover a healthier relationship with the natural world.

Episode Themes

  • Why technology may not be morally neutral
  • How efficiency, control, and progress shape technological systems
  • Technology as a second-order form of nature
  • The relationship between symbols, writing, media, and consciousness
  • The destruction of wild nature and the rise of global monoculture
  • Synthetic chemicals, industrial agriculture, and modern health problems
  • Why the solutions to many modern crises may already exist in nature

Is Technology Morally Neutral?

One of the core ideas in this episode is Kang’s argument that technology is not morally neutral. Rather than being a passive tool that simply depends on how it is used, technology carries built-in values such as efficiency, control, expansion, and innovation.

In this view, technology does not merely serve political and cultural systems—it actively shapes them. Whether under capitalism or socialism, technological development becomes a driving force that influences how societies organize themselves and how individuals live within them.

That framework challenges the common assumption that more innovation automatically means progress.

Technology, Consciousness, and Symbol Systems

Kang also explores the idea that human beings are not just tool-making creatures, but symbol-making beings. Language, writing, media, and technological systems all shape how people perceive reality and understand themselves.

We discuss how writing can outlive its author, how meanings shift over time, and how controlling what people see and hear can influence what they think. This leads into a broader discussion about content, media plasticity, and the symbolic frameworks that govern modern life.

At the center of this episode is a powerful question: what happens when our creations begin to guide us more than we guide them?

Religion, Civilization, and the Shaping of the West

The conversation also touches on Kang’s book Logos Dethroned, where he explores the relationship between Jewish messianism, Rome, Greek thought, the Apostle Paul, Christianity, and the development of European civilization.

Rather than treating religion as separate from history and power, Kang examines how theology, empire, language, and philosophy combined to shape the symbolic foundations of the modern West.

This part of the discussion opens a larger frame for understanding how ancient ideas continue to influence modern political and cultural systems.

Wild Nature vs. the Global Monoculture

A major theme of the episode is the loss of wild nature and the rise of a global monoculture driven by industrial agriculture, synthetic inputs, imported systems, and standardized ways of life.

Kang argues that this process destroys not only biodiversity, but also local traditions, cultural memory, and practical knowledge. From synthetic nitrogen and pesticide-heavy agriculture to endocrine-disrupting chemicals in everyday products, the conversation highlights the hidden costs of modern convenience.

Instead of endlessly replacing nature with engineered substitutes, this episode points toward a different path: study local plants, restore wild systems, and work with the intelligence already present in the natural world.

Fulvic Acid, Soil Healing, and Nature’s Repair Systems

During the conversation, I also introduce the topic of fulvic acid and how it relates to polluted soils, waterways, and the broader carbon-based exchange systems found in nature.

We discuss how fulvic substances can support soil biology, nutrient exchange, and the breakdown or renaturalization of certain synthetic pollutants. This becomes part of a wider point: nature often already contains mechanisms for repair that human systems overlook or ignore.

Kang agrees that the ability of natural systems—such as fungi, wild ecology, and living soil—to break down harmful compounds is itself a profound sign that real solutions may come not from more artificial intervention, but from better understanding creation.

Find M. H. T. Kang

You can follow M. H. T. Kang and The Machine Lies here:

The Machine Lies also hosts a public forum on YouTube on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Saturday nights.

Support the Podcast

If you enjoy these conversations and want to support independent discussion around health, law, nature, and society, you can support the show here:

paypal.me/healinglaw

You can also find more episodes and resources at HealingLaw.com.

Sponsor

The Healing Law Podcast is sponsored by American Grit Fulvic.

Learn more about how fulvic acid may support natural energy, focus, and soil health at:

OperationAmericanGrit.com

Episode Transcript:

Douglas Dedrick (00:00)
We are here with Mohammed Kang, author of Logos dethroned, as well as from the Machine Lies YouTube channel, a very interesting thinker out in these spheres. He doesn’t want to be called a philosopher. just asked him, but to me, he very much is. As far as technology and consciousness goes, he’s a very innovative thinker. ⁓ Dr. Skribina was your professor, I believe, right? ⁓ How would you introduce yourself, Mum?

THE MACHINE LIES (00:30)
Right, I learned a lot of what I know from Dr. David Skirbina in terms of philosophy. But that’s why I don’t really bill myself as a philosopher, because obviously he studied at a PhD level in philosophy. And ⁓ he could tell you all about ⁓ Plato and Aristotle. And he’s a of a classical ⁓ thinker. He thinks that.

⁓ philosophy should go back to the classical mode of thinking. And he found a lot of ⁓ good ideas in the Greeks. ⁓ So when I wanted to challenge the ideas of Dr. Skirbina, I wanted to argue with him about if technology could be ⁓ morally neutral. ⁓ That was the first thing I argued with him. I thought that

know, technology is not good or bad. It sort of depends on how you use it. And the more I argued with Dr. Skirbina, I found that that was a wrong way of thinking, meaning that technology itself imbues certain values. Like, for example, efficiency, control. It ⁓ has a built-in need for technological progress and innovation.

And this works whether you deal with a capitalist system, right? Because in a capitalist system, you need more and more ⁓ new ⁓ products to invest in, right? So that’s what sort of drives innovation in a capitalist system. But within a sort of socialist ⁓ or a communist system, right? ⁓ The ⁓ technological scope becomes the central

thing that ⁓ sort of propels the state. Right. So, you know, as Stalin said, he said the only ⁓ condition ⁓ necessary to realize socialism is the creation of industrialism or the industrial society. Right. So we see that ⁓ technology is sort of a force that drives politics and culture.

So it’s not morally neutral, right? It’s sort of in the driver’s seat. And the second thing I argued with him about, and I had a much more successful ⁓ ability to argue this, was from a theological scope, that the Bible actually prized God’s creation, that it didn’t put God’s creation as secondary.

And so God wanted us to be sort of stewards of nature instead of use our reason to sort of subdue nature, right? Through our technological innovations, right? so, ⁓ Scrivena thought that the Bible sort of promoted the sort of ladder view, right? So I sort of disagreed with him. said, no, actually the Bible argues that the earth is God’s creation and that we should respect God’s

Douglas Dedrick (03:50)
Mmm.

THE MACHINE LIES (03:52)
and so on and so forth.

Douglas Dedrick (03:56)
So through his like between him and you, like you kind of lay out, like you called yourself a panpsychist the other day. And so in relationships like technology, I’ve heard you say this before. mean, not just AI being potentially consciousness, but all technology is a form of consciousness in a way. I’ve heard you lay that out before. Could you explain a bit about that?

THE MACHINE LIES (04:21)
Yeah, I think that, ⁓ you know, nature is creative, right? So I think, ⁓ you know, obviously nature is God’s creation and the technology that we make is man-made nature, right? So technology is sort of a second order of nature, right? That sort of dictates ⁓ human needs, right? ⁓ So what it does is by ⁓

know, idealizing its own values, right? Like how human society, right, or a city can govern the needs of the individual, right? So can technology determine, ⁓ you know, the will and the desires and, you know, how a, you know, human functions in the world and even, you know, determine his base means for survival, right? So technology actually dictates

and controls a large aspect of our life, and this includes human society. ⁓ When a civilization creates ritualistic means, they create a ⁓ level of, ⁓ where they rely on a certain level of social organization, then ⁓ there’s

naturally going to be ⁓ the use of technique that precedes ⁓ human will or desire. And ⁓ so this whole idea of sort of when a city determines the needs of the individual, ⁓ another way to put it is ⁓ man becomes ⁓ guided or controlled by his own creations.

Right? So our creative ⁓ aspect has a will, right? Like, ⁓ for example, as it says in, ⁓ I believe in Chronicles, right, to paraphrase, it says something like, I ⁓ mean, our thoughts have imaginations of their own, right? So what we create creates, right? It’s just that simple, right? ⁓ you know, ⁓ you know, we don’t decide what our creations are used for.

Douglas Dedrick (06:42)
Mmm.

THE MACHINE LIES (06:48)
And actually, ⁓ the most fundamental thing is writing, the process of writing. Because the words cannot defend themselves. ⁓ anyone can change the meaning. The meaning can change over time. So the meaning is fluid. And we are living in an age where content is totally plastic.

Douglas Dedrick (07:05)
Mmm.

THE MACHINE LIES (07:17)
Right? So in a realm of content plasticity, right, you have total context dependency, right? So you have the over layer of contextualization and meaning that sort of controls the dialogue, right? Controls the narrative, right? So this whole idea of how language and words can sort of…

shift how we perceive reality. And of course, Plato describes this in two places. He describes it in the Phaedrus, where he says that writing is one of the most dangerous inventions. And then ⁓ secondly, in the cave, where he shows how a alternate reality could be used to prescribe means, ⁓ where people could totally rely on false means to perceive.

their own ⁓ survival, their relationship to the world, and their relationship to symbols. The key thing is their relationship to symbols.

Douglas Dedrick (08:27)
Mm man use ⁓ What is it you say it all time man as a symbol, what is it symbol making of what is it?

THE MACHINE LIES (08:35)
Yeah, yeah, that’s from Mumford. ⁓ That man is a symbol-making animal instead of a tool-making animal, right? So he defines man not in terms of his ability to create tools and ⁓ new technologies, the more basic desire to have a symbolic frame of reference that actually amplifies our technological means, right?

Douglas Dedrick (09:04)
And that symbolic frame of reference can be restricted by the technology that we use in ways that we don’t even really comprehend.

THE MACHINE LIES (09:14)
yeah, yeah. The medium is the message. If you can control what somebody ⁓ sees and hears, ⁓ you can control what they think and say. ⁓ Who controls your eyeballs controls your brain. ⁓ So yeah, absolutely. ⁓

Douglas Dedrick (09:38)
So you wrote Christ protagonist or logos to throne, transforming the symbol of Roman power into Jewish salvation in the slander of the and the prophet of God. And you’re referring to Jesus Christ there, right?

But you’re off there.

THE MACHINE LIES (10:00)
I’m mostly referring to the ⁓ revolutionary or messianic movement of the Jews within Rome. And how, and how…

Douglas Dedrick (10:11)
Right. So who’s the prophet of God there?

I’m wondering.

THE MACHINE LIES (10:17)
yeah. yeah,

that is definitely this, right?

Douglas Dedrick (10:20)
Right. So but

it’s an interesting language for like because you’re Muslim. So like you so Jesus is a prophet of God to you. So you’re arguing here.

THE MACHINE LIES (10:30)
yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, one of the main prophets. Actually, the Messiah, right? ⁓ So that sort of proves ⁓ Christianity to be true and ⁓ Judaism to be false to a certain degree. Right? ⁓ But then on another end, right, there’s the whole ⁓ sort of dialectic that’s imposed.

Right, between ⁓ the idea of Jewish messianism, right, or the Jewish eschatology, right, the ⁓ Roman ⁓ state or the Roman system of governance, right, and also the ⁓ Greek metaphysics that were used to subsequently prove

Some of the ideas of the Alexandrian Jews. ⁓ So this was a special class within Roman society. And ⁓ one of the key things that they did was they combined Greek and Jewish learning. So when the apostle Paul came along, see, he’s the apostle to the Gentiles.

So he speaks to the Greeks. So in his mission to the Gentiles, he led the transition not only from this idea where the Jews were this second class within Rome to then being a

this sort of ⁓ idea of Jewish eschatology was amplified by the Pauline idea, that led to the decline of Rome, but also to the spread of Christianity to Europe, because the Gentiles that Paul was preaching to were actually the Europeans. ⁓ So just as Christianity unified the European sort of tribes,

Douglas Dedrick (12:27)
Mm.

THE MACHINE LIES (12:51)
Islam unified the Arab tribes. So there was this big… So I talk about this huge culmination of events where Islam and Christianity, but mainly Christianity, ruled Europe for 1,500 years. And how the transition from ⁓ Christianity to the secular society owed much more to the classical Greek civilization.

Right then to the Christian ⁓ ideals Right the Christian ideals ⁓ so so I talk in one end how ⁓ How ⁓ you know Christianity, you know and different ideas about Paul right the apostle Right because when you look at the historical references to Paul It could get really strange Okay ⁓

Douglas Dedrick (13:26)
Mm.

Mmm.

THE MACHINE LIES (13:50)
Like for example, ⁓

There’s different Christian sects who will tell you ⁓ different ideas about ⁓ Paul the Apostle. And I do a sort of exegesis of the Pauline Epistles. The Pauline Epistles is the main work that combines ⁓ Jewish eschatology and ⁓ the Greek ideas, because he’s writing in Greek. And he’s writing in a rhetorical style.

that is pretty much unmatched in history, where he’s ⁓ talking about the spirit and the flesh in a highly ⁓ organized way to point at the ⁓ values that are mentioned in the Old Testament and interpret those values. ⁓

in terms of sin and salvation and of course what he comes up with has an extreme effect on the development of the Europeans.

Douglas Dedrick (15:05)
Mm-hmm and that still carries forth to this day right like we still see the same dynamics coming forth from this to this day, I mean where I don’t know how far you want to get into it, but We got war taken off again all because the way these ideas carry forth Because you would you would argue perhaps that religion is a technology,

form of technology.

THE MACHINE LIES (15:30)
⁓ Yeah,

I think, ⁓ know, sort of, as I said earlier, know, nature is a god-made technology, right? And the technology we make is remade nature, right? So, yeah, you know, I’m sort of convinced that maybe technology is a term because, ⁓ you know, what… ⁓

Douglas Dedrick (15:45)
Mm-hmm.

THE MACHINE LIES (15:59)
You know, what isn’t made? Right? Nothing’s by accident. I truly believe that. Right? I truly believe everything is part of some sort of craft that’s going on. Right? ⁓ So, you know, at the highest level, it’s God making things. Right? But obviously, we’re made in God’s image. So, you know, so there’s so on and so forth.

Douglas Dedrick (16:11)
Hmm.

Right. In the same way that he made us and then we go forth and we create what we create creates, like you were saying. Well, as far as like so healing law dot com, like this whole website, you know, I started studying like natural health and all this and seeing how these systems come forth. you know, Rockefeller basically, you know, turned oil into these synthetic drugs and we got rid of the natural medicine. And it’s basically like what you’re saying, second class nature rather than using

White willow bark, we synthesize aspirin or yeah, think aspirin synthesize whatever all these different things come from these plant compounds we find in nature. Then we make this second class order out of it because the technology can be controlled by the creatures of the state, the corporations and for profit and all this. Hmm, I don’t know where to go with that, man.

Because you think so deep, you get me going so many different directions. I can’t even like. Keep it together, man.

THE MACHINE LIES (17:33)
Yeah, well that’s one of the main points that ⁓ I explore is that ⁓ through the implementation of this global system, there’s been a dual effect. One is the destruction of wild nature, and the other is the loss of traditions. So the traditions used to be tied to the ⁓ structure of the language and the culture of the particular people.

That’s been lost because of liberalism, of this global system of international trade, importing culture and ⁓ technology and education and so on and so forth, to create this global monoculture. But monoculture also applies in terms of the plants, the destruction of wild nature. Because what we’ve done is

through the implementation of things like ⁓ IG Farben and all these things, where I think it was Fritz Haber who created the Haber method, where you could ⁓ take ⁓ synthetic nitrogen. I ⁓ think they applied petroleum to ammonium nitrate and got synthetic nitrogen from this chemical extraction process. And through this,

They were able to ⁓ use the synthetic nitrogen to plant seeds year round. And of course, they could use the monoculture and the pesticides. And that’s another thing that Fritz Haber innovated was this ⁓ use of pesticides, which they actually theorized was ⁓ created from Zyklon B. It’s amazing how many of these implements actually were used later.

Douglas Dedrick (19:07)
I know.

THE MACHINE LIES (19:29)
⁓ Monsanto may have created ⁓ chemotherapy from mustard gas. So they’re actually giving people mustard gas to try to heal them from cancer ⁓ in conjunction with radiation. ⁓ Well, obviously the rise in cancer is caused by the use of synthetic food and drugs and the use of synthetic chemicals.

Douglas Dedrick (19:46)
Yeah.

THE MACHINE LIES (19:56)
that are poisoning human beings, including the pesticides, which ⁓ have ⁓ huge endocrine disrupting chemicals. And of course, the nitrogen seeps into the ⁓ water system and causes dead zones in the water, ⁓ where you have huge fish die-offs because of the nitrogen in the water, ⁓ taking out the oxygen in the water, creating the algae bloom.

Douglas Dedrick (20:11)
Hmm.

Yeah

THE MACHINE LIES (20:24)
So these are things that most people don’t know about. And most people aren’t aware of the food system and the system of natural gas and petroleum and how it’s used to derive the food and, of course, the petrochemicals and the pesticides and how there’s so many cleaning supplies and soaps and aluminum foil and whatnot. All these things have endocrine disrupting chemicals in them.

you know, that are used. And of course, a lot of these organizations, right, I think there’s a huge ball, ⁓ you know, system in play, right. And by ball, I mean that they want to use fertility rights for ⁓ to control the weather and, you know, poison people through the use of food, right. That’s ball, right. Because ball, the sacrifices to ball were used to control the weather.

Right, so the fertility cult was linked to the soil and the food. Right, so they’re using the food to poison people to control the population so they can control the weather. You know what right? So that sounds like people who pray to Baal. You know, in other words, right?

Douglas Dedrick (21:38)
Definitely some dark forces involved here man because the amount of things that

go wrong It’s like every piece of technology all the food is poison. It’s got it can’t just be normal it has to be an extra process with extra ingredients and a lot of these are like about the Monsanto and their inventions I mean I think they made Agent Orange and they supposedly had something to do with inventing the first nuclear weapon and of course they had Roundup which we just found out recently causing all sorts of cancer that being said I got it

I gotta monetize this thing is how I do it. This podcast is sponsored by American Grit Fulvic. You can learn more at OperationAmericanGrit.com. TML, do you know much about fulvic acid because it actually ties into what you’re talking about there with this chemical waste.

THE MACHINE LIES (22:24)
Yeah, something about oil that’s stored in the earth through organic processes or something like that, right?

Douglas Dedrick (22:34)
It’s very similar to oil like oil would you know fulvic acid were sitting earth long enough it would become oil coal or tar But the way that it sits in the earth It’s still bioavailable holds this electronic charge like this organic like because the organic carbon structure of it holds this charge this needs to be released and It is sent you know it feeds all these beneficial bacteria microbes in fact you know cities have when they have a PFOA like pollutants and

the waterway from all these synthetic chemicals being spilled into the water, they will actually take fulvic acid and they’ll dump it into the water and it will renaturalize the synthetic in there and like pulls it out and renaturalizes it because it’s kind of a cousin of oil, coal and tar and it identifies with it somehow and it somehow pulls it apart. It’s fascinating stuff, the research they’ve done in it, you know.

It’s basically it can heal the soil with all these synthetic fertilizers that we’re using. They’ve killed all the little microbes and stuff. And the soil is basically dead and not active. But fulvic acid is present in everything, really, like everything that’s living organically. It’s like this background nutrient that exchanges information much like mycelium would in a different way. It’s still, you know, still, I don’t know. It’s way it’s too much about that. But.

⁓ Yeah, like the fulvic acid fascinates me because yeah Rockefeller took the synthetic drugs and made these pollutants and these phytoestrogen Mimicors these phytochemicals which disrupt our bodies terribly and ⁓ It seems that nature has its own little design about how to heal us and that there’s a lot of different ways to do that but Fulvic acid seems to be one of those ways that we can pull that crap out at least a stomach stop

THE MACHINE LIES (24:32)
Yeah, I’ve heard that oyster mushrooms can break down oil spills, they spray ⁓ chemical dispersants on the oil spills, and it doesn’t break it down. So it’s incredible what nature can do. ⁓ It can work with ⁓ incredible ⁓ chemicals that are, ⁓ I guess, incredibly virulent.

that it took us great pain and effort to create, but there’s compounds in nature that could break them down very easily. So that is a miracle in and of itself. If we look at the information that’s in nature and study nature instead of trying to create new machines as a replacement for nature, that actually destroy wild nature and the information contained therein.

Douglas Dedrick (25:11)
Mm-hmm.

THE MACHINE LIES (25:32)
So this is a huge problem that we’re facing on a global scale, is ⁓ people who don’t avail themselves of a sort of real science or a real sort of alchemization of human knowledge in terms of ⁓ corresponding with nature.

Douglas Dedrick (25:53)
Yeah, absolutely. you know, that’s the main focus about like how I started this site. It’s like clearly we’re working against nature. And if you just work with nature, people would just be a little bit more aware of it. They would have healthier, happier lives. They wouldn’t be dragged into this medical system that takes everything that they own before they die. I mean, it’s it’s incredible how backwards things are.

THE MACHINE LIES (26:09)
Absolutely.

Yeah, that’s why I think the ⁓ solution is in nature, in replanting wild nature and ⁓ studying ⁓ what the local ⁓ plants are and what nature has to offer and sort of becoming ⁓ people who engage in this practice of figuring out ⁓ sort of, you know, ⁓

what goes where and, ⁓ you know, I ⁓ know there’s lots of land race strains around the world, like ⁓ cannabis is from the mountains of India, right? ⁓ Apples are from the forests of Kazakhstan, and I know coffee is from Ethiopia. So these things grow native to certain lands, right? They’ve been exported around the world.

and hybridized and planted in different areas. But of course, if you ⁓ go to the land race, you’ll see that it is ⁓ a powerful product that nature created. Some of the Ethiopian strains of coffee are the strongest or whatever. it’s like nature can create is sometimes much more powerful.

Douglas Dedrick (27:43)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s always well, if it’s not more powerful, it’s more energy efficient somehow. Like the efficiency of nature is unmatched. The technology we make is like.

I mean, it’s yeah, it’s always has its costs and it might appear to be more efficient, but there’s always these hidden costs where it just proves itself not to be. ⁓

THE MACHINE LIES (28:13)
Yeah, and I think ⁓ in

finding an ideal to the world technological system, there’s no more perfect ideal than wild nature. ⁓

Douglas Dedrick (28:25)
Yeah I love that concept wild nature. Yeah. Well, I don’t want to take up too much of your time here. Um, Mohamed I Do you have the where can people find you and uh, you got your books available on amazon, right?

THE MACHINE LIES (28:32)
Thank you for having me.

Yeah, you know we got books available on the major retailing ⁓ sites ⁓ Amazon and Barnes and Nobles or whatever you can also email me alternatively for a free PDF copy, right? I don’t have the resources to send you know books out to everyone ⁓ emails me but ⁓ but the thing is is that ⁓ They are free the machine lies zero at gmail.com

you could send me an email there to get in contact with me. Obviously, we hold a public forum on the MachineLive’s YouTube channel. There we have a lot of content where I ruminate on a lot of the research that we’ve compiled in terms of a lot of the ideas that I brought up here. So if you guys have interest in that or to correspond with us there,

You know, ⁓ we have an open public forum there on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Saturday night, usually at 9, 15 PM Eastern time. yeah, so come check us out there. But ⁓ thank you so much for having me. And ⁓ it’s always a pleasure, Blessings, brother.

Douglas Dedrick (30:00)
Blessings man. Thank you so much for coming on to the show to help me get this podcast started and yes always a pleasure to speak with you without further ado ⁓ and I’ll put the links in the description for all your stuff. I’ll get that together when I put this out Without further ado. Thank you. Mohamed hang for coming on here. The machine lies great talking you This has been the healing my podcast y’all take care now

THE MACHINE LIES (30:23)
Yeah, peace.